Proverbs for Couples: Do You Mock or Embrace God’s Advice on Marriage?

I recently read an article on line where an unmarried couple stated they were Christians but chose to live together because they wanted to get to know one another.  They said their reason for doing so was because God would desire them to know each other better, hence their justification for their choice.

I was saddened by what I read…professing Christians who chose to live together before marriage.  Did they not know what God’s Word said on the subject?  Perhaps not because sometimes we lack Biblical knowledge.  Or were they willfully defiant to the Bible as they chose to heed their advice and mock God’s?  I don’t know the answer.

But I do know in my own life sometimes I’m biblically ignorant because I lack wisdom on the matter.  Other times, I know what the Bible has to say, but I don’t want to heed its advice. While I might not mock God’s Word nor would I call myself a scoffer, there are definitely times in my life where I don’t want to lay down my rebellious spirit and embrace Truth.  But as I grow closer and closer to Jesus, I want to be a woman who quickly embraces God’s advice for my life and my marriage because God’s truth is always right and never lacking.

In today’s podcast episode, Eric and I discuss obtaining wisdom for your marriage and we pose the question, “Do you mock or embrace God’s advice?  Do you lean on your understanding (or feelings) or do you run to God and His Word for counsel?

Click to listen.

 

Show’s Transcripts:

Eric Engle: Hi, my name is Eric Engle with my beautiful, fantastically talented wife Jolene Engle for another episode of the Marriage Mentor Podcast. So, tell me, what do we have for today?

Jolene Engle: Well, today we are still in the series of Proverbs for couples.

Eric Engle: Ok.

Jolene Engle: Ok, and we’re gonna talk about God’s advice on marriage, more specifically: do we mock His advice or do we embrace His advice?

Eric Engle: Ok, that’s a good subject. Let’s go!

Jolene Engle: Ok. So I wanna take the listener to Proverbs 9:10 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the holy one is understanding.” So, I guess, the question that we have to ask ourselves is: do we have that reverence for the Lord? Not like I’m afraid of God, He’s the boogeyman, He’s gonna be harsh. Not that type of fear, ok, ‘cause He’s a loving God, He’s an awesome God – that type of fear of He’s a smarter God than I am.

Eric Engle: Absolutely! Is there any question about that?

Jolene Engle: Well, I think sometimes we question His word based on our intellect, based on our perspective, culture, our emotions… all these things could be in direct opposition to God’s word. So, in essence, we’re kind of questioning how smart God is when we’re not really submitting to His word and His plan for marriage.

Eric Engle: Well, I’m saved, so…

Jolene Engle: Glad to hear that.

Eric Engle: (laughing)

Jolene Engle: (laughing)

Eric Engle: Yeah, thank you for that. I’m saved and I believe God’s word and I’m married, so everything’s good. Right?

Jolene Engle: Well, that’s the start, ok? That’s the start. That’s what most people would say is a Christian marriage. But I’m not just interested in a Christian marriage, I’m interested in my marriage being Christ-centered. I’m interested in doing marriage God’s way. Not my way with a little hashtag “I’m a Christian”, ok? Because I want the beauty of Christ in the center of our marriage. But that requires me to lay down a lot of my emotions and thoughts and perspectives, and how the culture views marriage and wifehood and, you know, the Biblical roles of a husband and wife.

Eric Engle: You said something to me yesterday that I think is really key and it’s not like I didn’t know it, but it brought this back to mind. When we’ve gone through various trials and such, you at one point said that you had the attitude of Hey, you know, I’ve been faithful, and why isn’t God blessing me?

Jolene Engle: Right.

Eric Engle: And you said to me you realized that it’s all about Him and that you’re not the star of the show. He’s the star of the show. And so many times we look at our marriage, we look at our situation, and our trials, and where is God in the midst of our trials, but even…

Jolene Engle: I thought He was on a vacation in the midst of our trials.

Eric Engle: But, but the problem was that the focus was on us, or me, right?

Jolene Engle: Right, right.

Eric Engle: Rather than the focus is on Him, so even in marriage we think: oh, it’s about us, but it’s not.

Jolene Engle: Right. Yes. I had a spirit of entitlement in my lack of spiritual understanding and lack of spiritual growth. Now, mind you, I’m reading the Bible, I’m doing Bible study, I’m at church every week, I’m doing all the right, Biblically based, things. I’m committed to the Lord, I’m pursuing Him whole-heartedly and yet I still had this: how much more do we need to go through? Like, how many more trials do we need to go through and that’s when He taught me that, really, if my heart was to please Him – and it was…

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: I had heart to please God, but I also had that desire, you know? Lord, help me to be more like You. Okay? I don’t become like Jesus with no trials.

Eric Engle: I understand, but going back to the fear of the Lord, ok?

Jolene Engle: Right. He’s God and I’m not.

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: He knows what He’s doing, and I don’t.

Eric Engle: Even those situations the focus kind of turned that, hey! This is about us. Hey! We’re here, we’re struggling, we need help. And, yes, we always call on the Lord for help, but the focus always needs to go back to Hey! It’s about You Jesus. If I’m going through trial, if I’m going through hardship, if I’m dying, ok? – and some people are in that situation…

Jolene Engle: Ok. Right.

Eric Engle: It’s still a supporting role to who He is and His leading role.

Jolene Engle: I learned, the Holy Spirit whispered to me, that I am the leading lady, I am not the starring role.

Eric Engle: Ok.

Jolene Engle: Jesus is the starring role, which is what my heart wanted, ok? But then that meant I needed to get over my entitlement, ok? It’s not all about me, it’s all about Jesus, and it’s got the fear of the Lord because it’s all I want my entire life to reflect Him, and I want my life to bring Him glory. If I want to live a life that’s glorifying Him, then I’m not the lead

Eric Engle: Well, and, as usual, I took us down a rabbit hole but I’m gonna bring us back.

Jolene Engle: (laughing).

Eric Engle: Ok, but I guess bringing us back means that if He’s the star of the show, and it’s about Him, then we have to follow Him and what He says about wisdom, what He says about marriage, what He says about life.

Jolene Engle: Right. He said if you love me you’ll obey me, you’ll follow me. I mean the Gospel message is simple: follow me…

Eric Engle: If you love me, you’ll do my commandment.

Jolene Engle: Right, right. And we say we love you, but… We love you, but… We love you, but… We love you, but… We say that all day long, you know? And we discount.

Eric Engle: Well, this is what we say: we love you, but Lord, if you love us, you’ll do what we want.

Jolene Engle: Right, and so in our pride and arrogance and intellect, and the culture, we discount what His word says on marriage.

Eric Engle: Well, and what’s really interesting is that we do what we want. We want God to support what we want because we think it’s best but, really…

Jolene Engle: We’re ignorant.

Eric Engle: … if we follow what He set up, it is way, way better. Let me say it again: way better than what we want.

Jolene Engle: Ok, so here’s Proverbs 14,26 “In the fear of the Lord there is strong confidence and his children will have a place of refuge.” And I said to you one day, you know, I don’t bring a popular message, but I bring the right message because it’s a Biblical message. And if you always stand on the word of God, you’re always right.

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: There is refuge there, there is a strong confidence there because you’re lining yourself up with the Scriptures. You’re standing on God’s word. So you can either stand on God’s word or you can stand on your emotions and your customs, and what the world has to say, and it’s just like: which one is sure? Which one is that solid ground and which one is shaky? It’s like, ok, I’m going for solid ground all day long.

Eric Engle: Well… absolutely, but how many times have you heard world wisdom coming out of members of the church?

Jolene Engle: Oh, a lot of times.

Eric Engle: All the time.

Jolene Engle: All the time.

Eric Engle: Right, because it’s like: ok, I’m saved and I can leave my Bible aside and I’ll kind of figure out what’s truth for me, my own wisdom. And they take bits and pieces about what they see on shows and what they feel and they experience and kind of put together this hodgepodge of what I would say garbage that does not line up with God’s word. And it’s not with bad intentions. This is with good intentions because they want to follow the Lord but only when, I guess, only when it’s comfortable.

Jolene Engle: Right.

Eric Engle: And I don’t want to be pointing fingers ‘cause I’m in that category as well.

Jolene Engle: Sure, sure, I’ve already had my pity party angry at God and I can’t believe You’re allowing this to happen. Ok? That was yesterday. (laughing).

Eric Engle: And you’re over it today.

Jolene Engle: You know, I have these moments, but what is the anchor to my soul? It’s the word of God. What is the anchor? What is that sure foundation that I wanna cling to and build upon and that is the Bible as God’s marriage manual and I can argue with Him all day long, which I’ve had my arguments with God, and He wins, ok? Because if I’m going to stand as Christ’s follower, then I should follow His word. And, obviously that’s why you have the Holy Spirit convicting you towards righteousness, convicting you towards that right thing.

Eric Engle: Ok. So let’s just assume that everyone agrees that they should follow God’s word. By the way, I’m telling you: you should agree that you should follow God’s word, but…

Jolene Engle: You, the listener, and me as your wife.

Eric Engle: Right. But, I don’t know what God’s word says, ok? How do I…?

Jolene Engle: That could be an objection, yeah.

Eric Engle: It could be I don’t know what God’s word says, what does it say for marriage. I mean: does it actually spell out marriage in the Bible?

Jolene Engle: It does. And they are very hard truths to swallow for most wives, based on today’s culture. And sometimes I think God has put me here on this planet to do just that, to help the wives see the beautiful picture and not prison, ok?

Eric Engle: I believe He has.

Jolene Engle: Ok, so, anyway, so I wanted to have this podcast episode really be that Biblical foundation, you know?, to create that Christ-centered marriage. And it starts with the fear of the Lord because if you don’t fear God in that reverencing Him and pleasing Him as an authority in your life, then you’re gonna do marriage your way.

Eric Engle: So, let me just take everyone back to who God is and what He’s done because lot of times you say: oh, yeah, God, you know, bless me and whatever and help me, and that sort of thing, but here is a spiritual being who, with words spoke physical things into existence.

Jolene Engle: Right.

Eric Engle: Spoke the world, spoke the universe, spoke the sun and the animals, all creation into the universe. So, He said: “Let there be light”

Jolene Engle: Ok, now,

Eric Engle: Who?…

Jolene Engle: Hey, not only that, but listen to this “By wisdom the Lord founded the earth, by understanding he created the heavens, by his knowledge the deep foundations of the earth burst forth and the dew settles beneath the night sky. My child don’t lose sight of common sense and discernment.” That, that’s the book of Proverbs, right there.You know, it starts off Proverbs 3, it goes into those verses about how God founded the earth with His wisdom.

Eric Engle: So, setting the stage for who He is, ok, and if you just sit down and think: does anyone know anyone who can speak anything into existence, you know? No, obviously. I mean, you know, I’m not treating you like a stupid, but, you know?

Jolene Engle: I don’t take it that way.

Eric Engle: No, but I mean, in general, you know, but if you really think about… wow! He has such power, and knowledge, and wisdom to create all these intricate beings by His word, by His knowledge, by His wisdom, that they work together and yet, we think that He’s not too bright about marriage, or… I know better about marriage than He does.

Jolene Engle: Well, and I see that couple over there, and they seem to be doing just fine even though they’re not lining their selves up with what the Bible has to say. I mean, I hear those objections all the time.

Eric Engle: Well, and here’s the real deal about that: is that everyone looks great on the outside, everyone’s all shiny and sparkly and wonderful and happy and nice and sweet and loving and caring and everything else on the outside, ok? But when they step inside their door things change.

Jolene Engle: Yeah, how are they at home? Who they are at home is who they really are.

Eric Engle: Right. Right. And we’ve heard people say: well, you know, he’s so nice, at work he’s such a nice kind guy, or she’s such a nice kind sweet gal. Of course, you have to be, or you get fired.

Jolene Engle: Right (laughing).

Eric Engle: You know, that’s ridiculous. Of course you’ve gonna be that way. When was last time when a guy went up and punched his boss in the face and kept his job?

Jolene Engle: Or a woman was arguing and contending and quarreling with her boss? She would not be working there very long.

Eric Engle: Right, so you…

Jolene Engle: I mean, if I were her boss, I’d fire her.

Eric Engle: Right. You have to be that way in public.

Jolene Engle: Right.

Eric Engle: But when you go home, then it’s all different. How are you there? Are you acting and treating your spouse the way that God has laid out? Are you guys in the roles that God has laid out? Are you following just Christian wisdom and Christian guidelines as to how to be a man or a woman of God?

Jolene Engle: Well, and it goes back to… I knew, when I was a new believer, and you and I had just started dating, I remember this as if it were yesterday, we were at The Old Spaghetti Factory…

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: … and I had met your dad and we’re standing outside waiting to get our table because there was your entire family, you know, siblings, wives, husbands, and so forth. And he says…

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: A big party. I’m the new kid on the block and I’m standing out there when your dad comes up to me, and he says “So why did you get saved?”, something along those lines. That was the question, basically, he was interested in how did I get saved, what made me come to Jesus .

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: And, nobody had asked me that question before.

Eric Engle: We’re an inquisitive family (laughing).

Jolene Engle: Well, I basically, I didn’t have like this, you know, story to give to him.

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: But what the first thing that came to my mind when he said why did you come to Jesus , and I said “I got smart.” Ok? Meaning that there was, without me realizing it, I was fearing God. Because I was God-ignorant, you know, as an atheist, you’re God-ignorant.

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: And I decided to get God-smart.

Eric Engle: (laughing)

Jolene Engle: Ok?

Eric Engle: Well, so, what sparked that?

Jolene Engle: What sparked me coming to Jesus?

Eric Engle: Yeah.

Jolene Engle: I wanted a better life.

Eric Engle: ‘cause you had tried the world’s way.

Jolene Engle: Oh, yeah, I tried the world’s way and my way, and it didn’t work. It was a disaster. Complete train wreck, in the gutter, couldn’t get any worse. So I kinda had that thought of what do I have to lose?

Eric Engle: You’re smart after realize this hey this ain’t work and so I gotta head into a different direction.

Jolene Engle: Right, so before you came along, you know, I decided I’m gonna follow Jesus and then, somehow I landed in the book of Proverbs and it was just I couldn’t get enough of that, then I’m like wow! This gives me actual instructions on how to live and obviously there were, you know, verses in there that insulted me emotionally because I’m like my own little mini messiah. It’s kinda like… I don’t know that I want to give up some of that emotional courting of I believe that this is how it should be. Ok? But what it comes down to is: do I fear God? Because I wanted that wisdom but, in order to get that wisdom, I had to fear God.

Eric Engle: Well, and wisdom… God throughout the Bible has said that wisdom is the most important…

Jolene Engle: Yes.

Eric Engle: … part, ok. If you’re seeking something, He gave Solomon the opportunity Hey! Whatever you want, and Solomon said: Hey! I want wisdom. Right? And because he chose the best part, He gave him everything.

Jolene Engle: He gave him everything. Yeah, you know, take a bath in a lot of wisdom, which is the word of God. You’ve got to get to that point in your mind. You see, I can’t make the person want that.

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: … to seek out that wisdom.

Eric Engle: Well, and where someone says I don’t like what the Bible says.

Jolene Engle: Too bad for you, fool. I mean, that’s my thought. It’s not gonna go well.

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: It’s not gonna go well. I mean, you could argue with God and question God all day long. Go ahead and have those arguments with God, but I really hope that when you come out of that, like, boxing ring, you realize that He’s the champion.

Eric Engle: Undisputed.

Jolene Engle: Right, because He brings forth wisdom to make your life better. That instruction is to produce a beautiful life, not to get you in a headlock and keep you there, but the choice is yours. I look at Proverbs 1,20-23, it says : “How long you simpletons, will you insist on being simple-minded? How long will you mockers relish your mocking? How long will you fools hate knowledge? Come and listen to my counsel, I’ll share my heart with you and make you wise.” But there’s a cost that you have to pay for wisdom and…

Eric Engle: But what’s so cool… I mean there’s an open invitation, right there…

Jolene Engle: Open invitation, ok, but you have to lay down your pride and say God is smarter than I am.

Eric Engle: Right. So, let’s agree, anyone and we’re talking specifically to you right now, who are listening to this podcast, let’s agree that God is smarter than we are. God is smarter than you are. God is smarter than I am.

Jolene Engle: Right, and then… you know, and I’m setting this up by setting the foundation up so we can then move into other attributes of husband and wife because then that’s where the rubber meets the road there.

Eric Engle: Well, and here’s what’s so interesting, you know, if we’re looking at finances and we see someone who is a millionaire or a billionaire we listen to their advice. Oh what are they gonna say about investment, what are they gonna say about how to build a business, ok? Or other experts on this or that, what are they gonna say? You know, they have all this experience, they have all this wisdom about that, and yet, here is the pure best wisdom that’s ever been offered ever, and we say ah, we’re not listening to that, we’re going to go listen to ourselves or someone else who’s a dummy about this.

Jolene Engle: The behavior is justified.

Eric Engle: Right.

Jolene Engle: A lot of justification of the behaviors; emotionally justifying it and in our culture today so many double standards that it’s disgusting. But that’s another podcast.

Eric Engle: That’s another podcast.

Jolene Engle: But, I want the listener to really be open to saying yes to God’s plan, yes to His word, yes to God’s smarter than I am because that really opens up their heart and mind to be in a position where they’re saying: Lord, I want to follow your ways for that Christ-centered marriage.

Eric Engle: So, here’s something else that I’m sure goes through some minds is: I’m afraid. I’m afraid that I’m going to lose who I am, I’m afraid that my life’s gonna be miserable, I’m afraid that I’m just gonna be destroyed if I allow God’s wisdom to…

Jolene Engle: It kind of sounds like the Israelites, if you ask me. (laughing)

Eric Engle: (laughing)

Jolene Engle: You know, there was a lot of fear there. They didn’t trust God, there’s giants in the land. You know, I’m not going over there. And yet what was the land that God had for them? It was a land of milk and honey.

Eric Engle: Sure, and if we preface that, I mean, they were led out of Egypt, the plagues, you know, kind of set the stage for them being released from Egypt and then, here they are at the Red Sea, and here come the Egyptians. Pharaoh for some reason says: You know what? I’m not let them go and I’m going after them. And there they’re gone: Hey, what do we do? And God opens up the Red Sea. I mean, just picture this: you’re standing right there and it just opens up

Jolene Engle: I can’t even imagine.

Eric Engle: and you can walk through it and the last one walks out and He waits until the Egyptians get into it and then He closes it up and they all drown. Ok, that’s one of the first major miracles outside of the plagues.

Jolene Engle: Right.

Eric Engle: … that I just go Wow! Look at that! There’s no way to physically explain that.

Jolene Engle: Right.

Eric Engle: And so, then, He leads them through the desert with a pillar of fire at night and a cloud by day, right?

Jolene Engle: Mhh mhh.

Eric Engle: And ok, so I don’t know when the last time anyone saw a pillar of fire that just kind of led you around and didn’t consume anything but…

Jolene Engle: Never. And I never had a burning bush talking to me either.

Eric Engle: Right. And then they don’t have food and manna food falls from the sky, ok? So it’s not a natural sort of thing. Oh, we found these plants with food on it or we found these animals that can be food. I mean, this it came down and was on the ground every morning for them to gather, this unnatural… so God’s doing all this stuff, He’s taking care of them and then they say: We’re afraid to take the promise that He’s given us.

Jolene Engle: Right.

Eric Engle: Because God gives promises and promises about marriage as well.

Jolene Engle: Right!

Eric Engle: And they go into the land, they sent spies in there it’s like Oh they are giants, we don’t want to go in. He’s just like: Are you kidding me? After everything He’s done, you know, you don’t believe that God can do what He says He’s gonna do?

Jolene Engle: Well and that goes back to them not trusting God, even though He is clearly trustworthy, even though He showed them I’m here, I’m not leaving you, I’m not gonna forsake you. So, any time I’m sitting down with a wife, or you and I are dealing with couples, what we’re always looking at is: is it a lack of knowledge of what God’s word says for marriage? Is it a rebellious spirit? And then I always say: but then there’s that third one, and the third one is fear. You know, they are not so quick to move forward on God’s word because the fear can be paralyzing them.

Eric Engle: Well, and fear, ultimately, becomes rebellion.

Jolene Engle: Yes! There is that side of it.

Eric Engle: Because, whatever the reason is, if we decide we’re not gonna follow God’s word, we’re gonna rebel against it. It could be fear, there could be other reasons, there could be pride, there could be a lot of things, but there’s either rebellion or lack of knowledge. Now, we wanna help you with lack of knowledge. Rebellion we can’t help you with. That’s a hard issue.

Jolene Engle: And it’s towards God.

Eric Engle: Right. And you have to deal with the Lord on that.

Jolene Engle: Right. So, you got a spouse that has a hard heart and you pray the Lord, ask the Lord to soften their heart, whether it’s a he or she, because you can try and minister to that heart all day long, but it’s hard, and God needs to be the one who comes along and helps to soften that.

Eric Engle: Well, of course, and as well if you are living by wisdom yourself, and living like Jesus there’s gonna be a contrast between the turmoil they’re going through and what they see in you.

Jolene Engle: Yes, because a person who walks in wisdom, you know, I go back to the verse “In the fear of the Lord there’s strong confidence and his children will have a place of refuge.” You and I could have so many trials surrounding us, and we’ve lived like that, but if we’re living to please Jesus and we’re standing on His promises, there’s a confidence there and there’s a refuge there.

Eric Engle: And even if you don’t have a spouse that’s living by wisdom, you can still live by wisdom.

Jolene Engle: Sure, you can still do that. You have to ask yourself, you know, what kind of husband or wife do I want to be, do I wanna be one who pleases me, pleases my spouse, or pleases the Lord? The last one is the right answer.

Eric Engle: And Proverbs is full of instructions on how to get along with people and have a better life.

Jolene Engle: Yes, and so we touched on just some simple ways to communicate. We had the first three episodes of this series discussing how to communicate because usually that’s where a big breakdown is in the marriage. So, if you haven’t heard those episodes, go back and listen to them. And this is my thoughts for this is to just be that man or woman who submits yourself to the Lord and stands on His words and for His words, regardless of what somebody is saying, doing, or responding.

Eric Engle: Right. And if you don’t know what God’s word says, find out.

Jolene Engle: Read it!

Eric Engle: It’s right there.

Jolene Engle: Ok, read it.

Eric Engle: Search it out.

Jolene Engle: So these are my thoughts.

Eric Engle: They are, once again, great thoughts. I’m Eric Engle.

Jolene Engle: And I’m Jolene Engle at joleneengle.com.

Eric Engle: Till next time.

Jolene Engle: Bye bye.

For more in this series:

Proverbs for Couples: How to Communicate in Marriage (Part 1)

Proverbs for Couples: How to Resolve Conflict in Marriage (Part 2)

Proverbs for Couples: How to Create an Emotionally Safe Place for Communication (Part 3)

Live a poured out life for Christ,

Jolene Engle